this video by James Papadopoulos from TechSpank does a great job of capturing the atmosphere, the excitement, the news and the oddities.. of last night’s meetup

(photo taken by Whitney Hess)

seeing the “BOXEE NYC MEETUP” sign at Webster Hall got us all excited. gidon and yaron spent hours together with the guys from Webster Hall and Mogulus making sure we are all set for the event (unfortunately we had some audio issues. my laptop is to blame. i think).

(photo taken by Yaron Samid)

by 6:30pm there was a line around the block.

(photo taken by Gubatron)

Webster Hall set up a new Video Tunnel with 90 flat screens. we prepared a video of the boxee experience that ran on all the screens in a loop. people coming up the stairs to the grand ballroom were surrounded by boxee everywhere. DJ FuzzlyLogic from LiveKick entertained the crowd as they were waiting for the event to start.

(photo taken by Yaron Samid)

the ballroom was packed. 600 people were in the audience. 5,000!! watched the event online via Mogulus.

big thank you to everyone who came and watched the broadcast. and special thanks to our partners (Tom Conrad from Pandora, Mike Hudack from blip.tv, Tim Shey and Jack Ferry from NextNewNetworks) who came out to support us and talk about their projects with the boxee community.

we are launching a new “bleeding edge” alpha version of boxee during today’s boxee NYC meetup. you can watch it live and join the chat on the Mogulus boxee meetup channel page.

i still remember the first time i used Pandora. it was love at first sound.
now it will be available on boxee! you can listen to your quickmix, your favorite stations and create new stations. music in the living room has never been better.

we love broadcast radio, too. so in this release you will also find RadioTime that lets you listen to over 100,000 radio stations from around the world. boxee will automatically bring up the local stations from your area, and you can set your own presets on radiotime.com.

[warning: geek speak follows] 

the Pandora and RadioTime apps were built using a new boxee API. the new API enables developers to build apps using XML pages and Python scripts. developers can now do pretty much whatever they want UI-wise and control the data and metadata around the media.

also in this version is an enhanced version of the boxee browser. it is based on the XUL framework, which means the boxee browser shares the same core architecture as any Mozilla browser (e.g Firefox). we are looking for developers that can help us test the new API. if you’re interested please send us an email to api-test [at] boxee d0t tv.

[end of geek speak]

this version’s boxee browser will display any full HTML page, and will try to play video on the page. for example, if you go to a Hulu RSS feed and click on an episode you will see the Hulu page for a few seconds and then the video will start playing in fullscreen.

the guys over at boxeehq are also releasing their PBS app today. if you want to install it on boxee go to App Box on the main menu, select Repositories and add dir.boxeehq.com. you will see all the boxeehq apps on the New Applications screen.

so for those of you at the meetup – thanks for coming!  for everyone else, download the latest version of boxee to take advantage of all the new content and features.

on Friday Ryan Lawler from Contentinople posted an article titled Boxee CEO: Consumers Will Get A la Carte Online. which led Mark Cuban to post Why Do Internet People Think Content People Are Stupid ?

which triggered the following exchange:

me:

mark,

bundled offering is not going away. what is going away is the
traditional concept of a “channel” and the idea that the cable company
is the one deciding what content is included in the bundle. the user
should and will be the one making the decisions on what he is going to
pay for. while it may be bad news for some incumbents it is overall a
great positive for the content industry and the consumer.

as a cable channel your primary concern is your ability to negotiate
your way into the basic cable package with as many cable operators,
and to get the highest fee for it. in an Internet/on-demand world your
primary concern is the quality of your content, since you are held
accountable by the consumer. if consumers want your content they will
be willing to pay for it either with cash or with their time (watching
ads).

in the same way that in the Internet age printing a newspaper is an
inefficient way to deliver news, building a channel and programming a
24hr schedule is an inefficient way to offer video content. i
understand it is a lucrative business. you invest in 1-3 originally
produced (or exclusively licensed) core programs, come up with 5-7
cheap to produce shows, license a bunch of syndicated content, get
cable companies to carry it and voila! you’ve got a great business.
but this model breaks in an on-demand world, and while it may take a
few years the change is inevitable.

it may be that the biggest risk you will face is that things are too
good for you living off the cable model, and while you are trying to
protect your profitable (yet future challenged) business, some
talented, hungry, motivated guys on the Internet will produce better
content for your audience and eat your lunch.

btw, i don’t know much about HDNet. ironically my cable provider (CableVision) does not carry your channel..

avner ronen
http://twitter.com/boxee

Mark Cuban:

From MC> Avner, your argument has no merit. None. I can understand why you hope it ends up this way, but it wont for a variety of reasons. The least of which is that cable and telco networks are not static. There is nothing the internet can do technically that your local Cablevision, Time Warner, Verizon, Charter, etc cant currently or in the next few years be able to do. Unlimited VOD in a switched environment, Just a matter of switches and hard drives. Networked DVRs, so that there is no need for a device in the home at all, just a legal issue. You pick the feature you like on the net. If youtube can do it, so can your local cable/telco.

BUT things are not getting more flexibile for video on the net, its getting worse. You just dont want to face it. The amount of bandwidth in the home, not to the home, in the home is a huge limiting factor that no one seems to want to talk about. You want to download from an internet source to your laptop, while you are wathing your favorite show on Hulu, probably not a problem. Except that your wife/daughter/brother/son/father/mother, etc want to do the same thing at the same time. In HD. So rather than your 10mbs or 20mbs downstream being just fine, the 5 HD streams you are always trying to download at your house is killing your ability to hang out on facebook or upload pictures to Flickr.
But wait there is more. Go to netflix and ask their users about how the quality of the streams are lately ? And how are users in your al a carte internet video universe going to feel when they have to pay more for a show because more people are watching it ? Thats going to make sense to them wont it ? They wont care that more users increase bandwidth costs. On EVERY video distribution network, NO EXCEPTIONS there is more than 30x the bandwidth allocated to the traditional delivery of content vs the open contention internet delivery of content.

Then there is the risk of PCs going smaller with less horsepower to run multiple video streams and the real killer, those same people who might turn off cable to save money might just be the same people who turn off their wired broadband to the home and just use their mobile devices with 3G. Some percentage, maybe a large pct of your “over the top” , price sensitive market is at risk of going small. mobile small.

The concept of “users always want choice” really really sounds nice. It makes for a great panel argument. But the reality is that its not true. Ultimate choice requires work. Consumers like to think they have choice, but their consumption habits say they prefer easy. Youtube is the perfect example. Millions upon millions of choices that never get seen. The videos that get posted and expected to be seen are the ones from traditional media and providers that already have an audience, ala jon stewart. The rest have to fight for an audience.

Look at whats happening on youtube. Youtube is paying to get the best content. Everyone else who is trying to make a living is giving shit away in order to build their subscriber numbers. All the young, talented and hungry, whore out their product with lame “subscribe now, please” or “subscribe now and you can win…”

The TV Anywhere solution is the best solution out there. Its the best of both worlds , you just have to subscribe to cable/sat/telco video to get it. Which in fact most people already do. So for most of the US, broadband consuming world, it will be the path of least resistance. They can have ultimate choice, via VOD, or they can watch TV the traditional way. Their call. Content creators will easily fulfill users demands, whichever way they want. Thats the ultimate choice isnt it ? Give me all the content I want on demand, on my tv, or let me watch channels that package the type of content i want to get, with out me having to do the work of searching for it. I can put together my favorites on my remote and stay there, or venture out easily when Im bored. Thats the way it will work

Get ready for the deadpool. Sorry

me:

mark,

re your “anything the Internet can do, Cable can do better” argument:
the issue is not switches and hard-drives. the issue is the open
nature of the Internet eco-system. the Cable companies can come up
with Tru2way, EBIF or any other catchy name, but as long as they
decide what innovation gets through to the consumers’ screen it has
FAIL written all over it. i guess they can try re-inventing the
Internet. good luck.

re your “the Internet just can’t handle it” argument: the Internet is
not ready for live HD streaming events to millions of households, yet.
but i would not make a long term bet against the underlying
technology. in the meantime there is over-the-air digital broadcast
that delivers higher quality HD streams than Cable and costs nothing.
the combination of broadband video and OTA will be good enough for
most consumers.

re your “people will turn off wired broadband for 3G” argument: people
don’t care how they get their broadband, whether its DSL, Cable, FTTx,
WiMax, 3G or super-fast-pigeons. what people care about is a fast and
uninterrupted connection. what i don’t think we’ll see is people
downgrading to slower bandwidth.

re your “people prefer easy over choice” argument: i don’t think these
are conflicting needs. people want an easy way to get the content
they’d like to watch. the arrival of cable meant more choice for
consumers and as the ratings prove the availability of more channels
on Cable did reduce the ratings of the major networks. the Internet is
the next evolution. more niche content means viewers will be able to
find more content that they are really interested in watching. finding
content online is getting better, faster and easier. the fact that
anybody can post a video to YouTube means millions of videos don’t get
watched, so what? i think it’s beautiful.

re your “TV Everywhere is the best thing ever” argument: i also think
it’s great. and we would love to have it on boxee. but to try and
force it as the only viable option to get content is an artificial
attempt to save an old business model. TV Everywhere as an exclusive
option is not that great for ESPN, HBO, Showtime, CNN, or any other
channel that has great content and delivers great value to the
consumer.

re HDNet: syndicating shows and movies is not a differentiated
offering in an on-demand world. you will live or die by the quality of
the content you produce. Dan Rather is great, but the other shows of
girls in bikinis and guys beating up each other can easily be replaced
by amateurs with Flip cameras taking videos of girls in smaller
bikinis and guys in backyards trying to kill each other.

get ready for the cesspool. sorry.

avner

Mark Cuban:

i will move it over here.
1st HDNet. Dan Rather is a great show. But as far as “guys beating each other up can be replaced by guys with cameras”. Thats just ignorant. There is the UFC on Spike and PPV, and HDNet has deals with everyone else. We dominate the live events business for MMA. Find a faster growing sport geared towards men. But that’s my business and you obviously don’t know it. We have doubled our subscribers every year. Moving on.

You are mistaken if you believe that Boxee users will have “fast and uninterrupted” connections in a multi HDTV home that is depending on their broadband connections for all of their entertainment viewing, you are sadly mistaken. Home consumption of bandwidth for applications beyond entertainment video will grow far faster than the bandwidth being delivered to the home. (And those who think P2P is even remotely a cure for this, dont know how inefficient P2P is on the last mile).

But this is what it really comes down to. Do you not see that in your hope for boxee you are talking out of both sides of your mouth ?

On the one hand you are depending on the cable/telcos that provide Broadband internet to evolve and improve bandwidth to the home to the point that all and any video from any source that is compatible with Boxee will provide a smooth experience.

Thats a technology bet on them

ON the other hand, you are saying the same telco/cable companies that are smart enough to provide everything you need to be successful in the delivery of broadband are too stupid to be able to enhance their video platform to provide the same software you and others offer on the net.

You dont think someone is saying to Cicso, who now manufactures set top boxes “hey john chambers, we need set top boxes that can run customizable applications on Tru2Way.”

They are not as stupid as you think

me:

you’re right. i know nothing about MMA. the fact that this type of violence is becoming mainstream entertainment is a topic for a separate discussion.

in the US we’re years away from the Internet serving as platform for multiple HD streams. but in places like Hong Kong and Scandinavia there are homes with symmetric 100Mb connections for less than $50 a month. and that’s the low-tier package. bliss.

i would love for my Cable/Telco providers to focus on being great network providers rather than try to decide what content i should or should not have access to, what application i should or should not run, invent new standards for Interactive TV, Enhanced TV, whatever TV. all with the goal of trying to maintain control, so they don’t lose a grip of their lucrative business model.

their network infrastructure is a great asset. their billing relationship with the user is another one. they should try to build their future business around these two foundations.

innovation in the living room will not come from the set-top makers or the networks. if you would like to see the wild creativity of the Internet come to the TV screen, well you need to let the Internet come to the TV screen..

Mark Cuban:

if you havent read this article on streaming over at the netflix blog, you should. In particular note the part on the last mile “that they cant do anything about”. In particular I love the reference to PC Online Backups.

Lets see, 3 PCs at home that I want to backup , dang, its mindight when my backups start and its right when i wanted to watch something online..thank goodness my TV doesnt have this problem

http://blog.netflix.com/2009/03/netflix-trying-for-consistent.html

me:

the Internet is far from perfect when it comes to streaming high def video. there are issues with the CDNs, the codecs, the last mile and the last foot. people using hulu, netflix, abc.com, tv.com are upgrading their broadband packages, upgrading their WiFi routers, turning off bittorrent, and sometimes (rarely) get frustrated.

you keep coming back to the argument that the Internet is not ready (today) for delivering multiple HD streams to the home. but it’s not the relevant use case. the question is whether a 23yr old that just graduated from college and wants to watch his favorite shows and movies or the 35yr old couple that barely has time to watch TV can rely on the Internet as their main source of entertainment. and the answer to that question is a resounding YES.

you may choose to ignore it, but it will be a growing challenge for your business. if you want to reach that consumer you better start building out HDNet’s Internet presence. you can create a much more engaging and immersive experience once you have power of the web at your fingertips, and you can come up with new business models.

over the next 3-5 years the Internet and in-home infrastructure will get better, more content will be available online and the technology will become accessible for the mainstream consumer. then we can debate whether the Internet is ready for the multi HD streams to a single home, but even then i am not sure that would be the right question to ask.

the user doesn’t care whether the show he is watching is coming over cable, sat or the Internet. the user cares about the content and how much it costs. for some cost will be more important than quality (e.g. will prefer SD streaming for free vs. $2.99 for an episode in HD), others may feel the opposite, and the same user may make different decisions based on the specific content.

if Cable will offer that type of choice then great. if not then more people will turn to the Internet as an alternative solution. in either case your business will be impacted.

btw, boxee is not about cable replacement. it is about delivering the best 10ft user experience for consuming media. ultimately we are agnostic of the delivery network and the business model of the content owners.

the discussions continues in the comment section below

BOXEE NYC MEETUP – MARCH 24th at 6:30PM

more than 650 people have already RSVPd. the event is at Webster Hall, and we opened up the registration to include more people. if you can’t join us in person then you’ll be able to watch the event live on Mogulus.

we have a few updates re the meetup:

• NextNewNetworks will demo the new and buzz generating $99 Music Videos network
• blip.tv will be talking about the opportunity they see in having their content delivered to the TV
• a surprise speaker from a new and very exciting boxee partner
• Whitney Hess and I will talk about the features planned for the beta
• we have 100 boxee tees and hundreds of stickers to give away, plus one new Mac Mini.. : )

the DJ is sponsored by LiveKick

 

took a while, but we finally got our iPhone remote app approved.
should be good news for anybody who lost their tiny Apple remote.. : )

it is very basic, but we think it’s a good start.
based on your feedback we’ll add more functionality to it.
so please post your ideas on getsatisfaction.com/boxee

tips:

• the boxee remote app has two modes: Gesture and Buttons
• in the Gesture mode you need to hold down your thumb and move it around in order to navigate.
• clicking on the boxee logo acts as Select/Play/Pause
• dragging the boxee logo to the edges of the screen will act as a continuous up/down/left/right
• clicking in an input field will open up the iPhone Qwerty keyboard and will enable you to easily enter text
• the app works over WiFi, so make sure the WiFi on your iPhone is turned on

let us know what you think!

[if you’re in NYC on March 24th then you should come to the boxee meetup. we will release a new alpha version during the event and share some concrete plans for the beta.]

we would really like to move on and put the Hulu situation behind us. we apologize for the current “now it’s working, now it’s not” inconvenience, and hope we will be able to resolve the issue in the future.

meanwhile we’re really excited about the App Box and people like blip.tv. the App box makes it much easier for us and everyone else to release new apps and add more content to boxee. blip.tv, a video site dedicated to helping great shows find an audience, has already built a boxee app to share their shows with 350,000 boxee users. check your App box to install and start watching.  we are getting lots of interest from developers and content owners like blip.tv and plan to continually expand our API to enable more advanced applications.

we just found out that Hulu blocked the boxee browser from accessing the Hulu site. this is a disappointing development since their RSS feeds are publicly available, and our browser, while optimized for a great 10 ft video experience, is no different in how it accesses this content than Internet Explorer, Firefox, Flock, Opera or any of the other browsers out there.

to our users: if you choose to use boxee as your media browser to view legal and publicly available content on the internet, we will do everything we can to ensure that you can access it, no matter what the source.

we’ll keep you updated as things happen here and via twitter (@boxee). and while some of the best things in life are free, sometimes you have to work hard to get them…

UPDATE:

now there is a status message on the top-right corner indicating whether Hulu is currently available on boxee.

[if you’re in NYC on March 24th then you should come to the boxee meetup. we will release a new alpha version during the event and share some concrete plans for the beta.]

we started boxee because there was an opportunity in the media center space for a product/company who put the user first, while respecting the rights of content owners. over the past year and a half we’ve listened to users, content owners, investors, working to create that platform.

while we don’t come from an entertainment or cable background, we are learning quickly. it is a complex business. our meetings with Hulu and their content providers reinforced that point. the fact that it’s becoming easy to consume Internet video on a TV brings into question many of the industry’s business models that developed before the web. that’s part of the reason why Hulu asked to be removed from boxee. our meetings over the past week weren’t able to change that. but the people in the industry get it. they are users. they read the blogs. they talk with users. they are trying to adjust to a new reality, but they need time.

users on the other hand, won’t wait. as we’ve seen over the past few weeks, users will take matters into their own hands to get the content they want. witnessing this, we’ve decided to enable access to their favorite content using a new built-in RSS reader optimized for video. like IE, Firefox, or Google reader, the RSS reader supports Google Video, Yahoo!, YouTube and feeds from many other websites. while it’s not as attractive or robust as our previous Hulu application, it will additionally support Hulu’s public RSS feeds.

the extended support for RSS is part of a new version of the boxee alpha (no update for Ubuntu, yet). it includes two new features that are still under development:

• App Box – this is a first take at an application store that makes it easy for users to install new apps and plugins. there is also native support for 3rd party repositories, so you don’t have to rely on boxee as a gatekeeper for what goes into the official boxee app store. for example, you can add dir.boxeehq.com as a repository to get access to all the boxeehq.com apps.
• auto update – long time in the making and really bad form on our part for not having it from the beginning. but better later than never. no need to check on Twitter or our blog to know that there is a new version. now you’ll be prompted to update boxee whenever there is a new release ready.

this is a bleeding-edge release. not for the faint of heart since it did not go through much testing. we are on track to release a more stable update on March 24th.

if you’re in NYC on the 24th then you should come to the boxee meetup. we will release the new alpha version during the event and share some concrete plans for the beta.